How to Discuss Religion with Devout Followers

4th of June 2008

HOW TO DISCUSS RELIGION WITH DEVOUT FOLLOWERS

I have found there is very little discussion with devout religious people and there is even less gray space outside of their beliefs. It doesn’t matter what religion they claim, but devout followers cannot consider any other supposition that does not equal their own. It is there way or no way without any wiggle room. If the message doesn’t get pushed from the pulpit, then it isn’t true.

I wrote a response earlier today that was a mild slight against Homosexuality written and posted by a devout follower. I purposely forwarded my response to all of the many people who gave kudos to the author of this post. I was surprised by a variety of responses I received. However, many people responded and several expressed their apologies for the post (which was not warranted), with some chatting about the original post and my response (which was wonderful because I love a good exchange of ideals, even if I disagree with some of them), and there was a small group who responded with a trained Christian retort (I Love the sinner, but hate the sin).

As many times as I refute the same tired, clichéd arguments coming from Christians who wish to use words to spread hate, it never seems to diminish the flow espousing that significance. Let me clarify the sentiments that people may hold an assortment of degrees of bigotry. Some people discriminate just a little, while others are blatant homophobes with hate dripping out of every pour of their skin like a rabid disease. Make no mistake that odium is hate and when ever you refuse to accept a person or group of people based on general stereo types without getting to know them; it is revulsion.

Understanding that those Christians who refuse to accept any person due to their life or a simple part of their life, they are defying the very foundation of Christianity. Leave the judgments to God in the afterlife and accept the person for who they are and what they may bring to your life. Jesus never agreed with hate nor did he exemplify it when approached by any person….ever.

As for the reproachful response that so many Christians have been taught to deliver without ever thinking of the awful hypocrisy within their statements, “I hate the sin, not the sinner”. There is nothing wrong with me or my life. This statement supposes that I choose to be gay. I have argued this so many times with Christians and not one can honestly reflect about their teen years and if they chose to be straight. It is not a choice and is something you are born with just as the color of your eyes, the color of your hair, the hand you naturally use along with the genes that will determine other aspects of you as a human being. Not one person that has ever been honest with me can ever remember choosing their sexuality and why would anyone wish to be gay. Religion has made sexuality such a horrendous subject for so many decades that young people today are messed up by the mere mention of it. We cannot separate the person from what is natural to them neither can a gay man indefinitely do what is abnormal for them. Yes, a person can fake their sexuality for a while, but eventually natural tendencies will always become prevalent.

When someone finally accepts that sexuality is not a choice, then that only leaves the standard verses that all Christians are thought that exemplifies the aberration with homosexuality, so let’s discuss those texts from the Bible here and now, and let’s finally decide what the Bible really says about homosexuality.

The first thing everyone must understand about reading the Bible and truly understanding its meaning, you must place yourself in the day and time each chapter was originally written. The second thing to know is that the Aramaic language the Bible was written in has multiple meanings for each word. The groupings of words can have numerous and different meanings and larger sections of phrases and sentences together may mean completely different. So with any interpretation of the original text, you must delineate all of the possible variables and choose which selection is the most plausible given the attached words, phrases and sentences. It can be complicated and with every sentence that we read in the Bible, there may be completely different meanings that are not disclosed and those are chosen by the editor of the Bible we read. We also have literal, liberal and historical interpretations of the Bible and they all tell slightly different stories.

That being understood we can start with the tale of Sodom and Gomorra from Genesis. This is probably the story from the Bible that most people feel is so definitively stating that homosexuality is wrong and God dealt with it by destroying both villages. God already decided that Sodom and Gomorra were destined to be destroyed, but being the gracious deity that he is, he sent two angles to Sodom. The two travelers were brought to the Lot house and he took them in as guest. The custom or law during that time was to you never turned away a guest from your door. More importantly than turning them away, was that you treated visitor as the king of your house while they remained. The Lot family did this of the two angles and when the local community came demanding that Lot hand over his guest, he refused to turn over his guest. By defying the people of the village, Lot saved his family from destruction. The angles sent the Lot family away as God reined destruction down on a village that would break its own laws. The story speaks of the continuation of the village citizens that would disregard their laws and their customs. It was a lesson of inhospitality that brought about the destruction of Sodom and Gomorra and it had nothing to do with anal intercourse between men. While this doesn’t seem like a despicable offense, for the time, this was one of the most offensive laws they could break.

Leviticus tells us that “You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination”. If you read all of Leviticus it details those things one must do in order to be a good and pious Jewish person. You are not aloud to eat shrimp or pork as well as many other foods. It was considered to be a Holiness Code for the time it was written. There are many Jewish persons who do not adhere to all of the items listed in Leviticus, so unless you are attempting to be a good Jewish person, Leviticus has no proper implications to Christianity in today’s times.

Roman’s is the only chapter where the text of Homosexuality is directly spoken of. It is curious the words that were used by Paul when he wrote the Letters to the Romans. Paul did not want to offend the Greek culture and the words that he used in his letters held different meanings during the times. Had he offended the Romans it would have had consequences that could have changed Christianity as we know it today. The word that we know as unnatural actually meant in the time not normal. It gives a completely different connotation when you know that Paul was telling the Greeks that homosexual acts between two men were not normal in Jewish customs instead of unnatural.

1 Corinthians and 1 Thimothy speaks of abusive male-male sex. It is argued among scholars because of the words used in the texts, but almost all scholars agree that there is so much ambiguity in the text alone that both chapters do not conclude anything at all against homosexuality. There are several other verses referencing homosexuality and the grand conclusion by theologians from all over the world is that there is nothing in the Bible that denigrates homosexuality as most Christians have been told.

These are not my arguments against homosexuality; they are the findings by teams of noted and highly respected religious researchers, theologians, historians, linguist and archeologist that have spent years finding the absolute truth.

Now that the text within the Bible concerning homosexuality has been dispelled, lets discuss the Council of Nicea and their role in the formation of Christianity as well as what we know to be the Bible. In 325 AD Constantine the Great, the Emperor of Rome called together over 300 of regions top leaders and politicians who argued for years over the formation of one religion. They were the true instigators of what we know as Christianity today. Over the centuries the different faiths have segregated again, however, they were once brought together as one Christian religion for everyone. These leaders discussed everything from the holidays we now celebrate to the content of the Bible as we know it. They decided on each chapter in the New Testament and even went back with edits of the Old Testament. It is so frustrating that many Christians are literal and believe every word in the Bible as if God used a megaphone to speak them down to us. That is not what happened and to top it off, there were many other chapters used by the different religions of the time that were rejected. Chapters that had more significance to the life of Jesus and his teachings, but because they did not speak of him the way the Council desired those chapters were denied. There is much information in these chapters that still tells us about Jesus and the church he truly wanted Christians to practice. Because 300 men thousands of years ago disagreed with them does not make them less authentic then what we read in the Bible. In fact I would argue because the Council denied these chapters, they were not edited and their content is pure as apposed to the desires of over 300 men some 325 years after Christ gave his life for you and I.

This and many other reasons diminish the authority of the Bible, but I don’t refute religion as a hole. On the contrary, it is an amazing focus for humanity and we deserve everything that getting closer to Christ can bring us. I use the Bible as a means of reminding me how to live my life. As someone said in a message to me today, it is a guide. Now I was told this in a completely different context, but I agree with the words. Religion is an amazing part of our lives and should be a means of striving to live a better life, making us improved people. The true foundation to the church Jesus Christ wanted us to be a party too, is the one with Love as the foundation. He taught of to Love, Honor and Respect all humanity and that does not mean segregating any of us for any reason. It also does not mean “Love the sinner, hate the sin”. Hate is hate and it was not a word Jesus taught.

To those people who told me how Christianity and the Bible refutes homosexuality and it is wrong. Read what I have to say and then come back to me with any arguments that prove me wrong. I can respect you for what we have that is different, but more because of what we are that is similar. It is our commonalities that make us strong, but make no mistake, we are all interconnected and loathing me because I’m gay means you hate a part of yourself too!

Your humble servant – Todd M. Dobson